Monday, March 15, 2010

Who's Up on Their Latin Church Records?

Looking for a little help here...

I'm trying to figure out one of the dates on my grandfather's brother's baptismal record (from a village church in Poland).

I know that the date circled in light blue is his birth /baptismal date (Sept 27/30, 1906), and the date circled in light green is the date of his first marriage and the name of his wife, and the date circled in light orange is the date of his second marriage and the name of that wife, and the date circled in purple is the date of his death. But what I haven't seen before is the items circled in red. The top one has a date of 23/5 929 (May 23, 1929) with an abbreviation before it (estr?). Michael would have been 23 years old then. The bottom item circled in red looks like "H 185" or maybe "4 185". Here's the same record without my edit marks... any ideas of what that date and abbreviation are about?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


  1. The bottom item circled in red . . . could that be "aft" instead of H or 4?

  2. The '929 date and the death date appear to be in the same ink and handwriting - what could have been reported at the same time as the death? Did the death occur in the same parish or elsewhere? My first thought was that since 1929 was between the 2 marriage dates, that "estr" might be estrangement (ie divorce or annulment of the 1st marriage), but that abbrev. is unlikely for Polish or Latin. Could emigration or transfer to another parish be a possibility?

  3. Hmmm... Vickie you could be right. That could well be "aft".

    gbwhiehle- I see what you're saying. I don't think Michael did die in the parish. He was living in Debica when he died. In fact, I was surprised to see the death entry in the Podborze baptismal book. Interestingly, I thought "estr" might mean estrangement too but dismissed it because that wouldn't make sense in Latin or Polish. Michael didn't emigrate from the country but he did move to the nearby town of Debica. I didn't think he did so when he was just 23 though. For some reason I thought he moved there later in life. But perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe that date is signifying that he moved out of the parish. Thanks for the suggestion!

  4. Hi Jasia,

    I have seen the same notations on several birth/baptismal records of my ancestors and I had the same questions you have.

    However, on the following record, the first word appears to be "Extract." and the word before the number (on my record) is "No", so I think the symbol on your record is "#" (the number sign).

    At first, I thought the notation might mean the date my ancestor moved to a new house number, but it could also be the date the information in the record was "extracted" for a certificate (along with the certificate number?).

    Similar entries appear on a whole lot of other birth/baptismal records of my family. I'll email a list of the links to you. Perhaps together we can figure out this mystery!

    Best wishes,